In conversation with Zenzele Ndebele:
28/05/08
In 2007, journalist and film-maker Zenzele Ndebele (pictured) was victimised by state agents after producing a documentary called “Gukurahundi: A Moment of Madness”. MAGGEMM caught up with him recently to talk about his experience.
1. First of all, hello and thank you for agreeing to talk to us.
Thank you, I am also happy to get this opportunity to talk to you.
2. What made you want to do a documentary on Gukurahundi in the first place?
Basically I wanted people to know the truth of what happened because up to now, the issue of gukurahundi has not been debated openly in Zimbabwe. If you talk about gukurahundi you are immediately labelled a tribalist by the authorities yet we are always reminded about how Nehanda was killed by the whites. It is a fact that the Mugabe government killed thousands of Ndebele people and we have to know why that happened so that we can forgive. There is no way we can have social cohesion in Zimbabwe when we don’t trust each other as citizens.
3. Given the silence and fear in Zimbabwe, surrounding Gukurahundi, how difficult was it for you to find victims willing to speak in front of the camera?
That was the biggest challenge because there are a lot of people with heart breaking stories but they don’t want to tell them to the whole world because they think something will happen to them. Mugabe managed to instil a sense of fear in people’s lives and some of these stories we will never know about. It was also not safe to travel in rural areas because you could easily be arrested by the police or the war vets could attack you. After talking to some of the victims they later came to me and said they no longer wanted to be part of the film and that was a major set back because I then had to look for new interviewees. It is also difficult to get material on this subject because many things were not recorded during that time. Most of the victims and perpetrators have moved to other countries and some of them have since died so it was really a challenge.
4. Some people say G’hundi happened a long time ago and we should therefore let by-gones be by-gones. Did the victims you spoke to share this view?
Not at all. People are still angry because remember there are people today who still don’t know where their relatives are buried. In Ndebele culture, you cannot begin to deal with the loss of a loved one when you have not properly buried them. We also have to do rituals like umbuyiso but how do we do that when we don’t know where the person is buried. There are people who still have the physical scars, some of them are now disabled and there is no way they can forget about gukurahundi. The government is yet to compensate the victims and they have not even apologised so gukurahundi is still fresh in people’s minds. Those who were raped and maimed will not easily forget. Gukurahundi will stay with them for the rest of their lives
5. What key messages stood out for you when you spoke to victims?
People want the perpetrators to come out and apologise, people want to know the whole truth about who was behind the genocide because if you speak to the people who were in government they tell you that they didn’t know there was something like that happening. So, who was responsible because those soldiers were getting instructions from somewhere? Someone was paying their salaries, supplying them with food, fuel, bullets, etc so who were these people? The victims want them to come out and say what role they played. Victims also want access to the mines where people were thrown so that they can exhume the remains of their loved ones and give them decent burials.
6. When you finished recording the documentary, what then did you do with it?
The documentary was launched in South Africa in November last year (2007) and has since been shown in different countries throughout the world. In April this year, it was shown at The Botswana Human Rights film festival.
7. News reports following the release of your documentary painted a picture of panic in government circles. Do you think the government panicked and why?
I would say they got angry because they don’t want people to talk about gukurahundi especially this time when they are desperate for votes. They wish this issue to just be swept under the carpet but it’s not possible. There is too much pain out there.
8. How did your life change after the release of your documentary?
I became more careful and worried because I didn’t know how the government was going to react. You can not trust a government who have a history of killing. Remember the same people who were killing civilians back then are in positions of power today. These are people who are commanders in the army, police, and senior members of the Central Intelligence Organisation (CIO). So you see, they don’t want to be exposed, they will try by all means to suppress the truth. But I am very grateful for the support I got from different people and organisations. I felt more safe and brave. Yes, you can kill me but you can not kill the truth .So it was not easy but I am glad people appreciate the work
9. Was this documentary a one-off project for you or are you working on developing it further?
There is a lot that still needs to be done on the issue of gukurahundi so it’s not a one off project. The first version was 25 minutes and I now have the second version which is 30 min with subtitles and more interviews and I am now working on the 3rd version which I will launch in October when I celebrate the first anniversary of the first version, God willing.
10. Finally, what parallels do you draw between G’hundi and the current political situation in Zimbabwe?
It’s the same Zanu which was there in 1980. Zanu was always violent t but people didn’t want to talk about it .They are used to using force to make people support them. There are people who believe that Zanu started to be violent only in 2000 when they invaded farms but that is not true not, they started it in 1963 when zanu was formed. First, it was the Ndebele people then the whites now it’s everyone. So to me, I see the same brutal people doing their job the same way but the difference now is that everyone is shouting but in 1983 everyone was quiet when the Ndebele people were massacred. The international community did nothing despite the fact that evidence was there and Mugabe got the idea that he can do anything and get away with it.
